faderift | [ CLOSED ] Mage Council Informal Discussion

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[ CLOSED ] Mage Council Informal Discussion

WHO: Adelaide, Korrin, Sabriel, Benevenuta, Ellana, Vivienne, Hermione (listening in as notary/aide/etc), NPCs @ the end
WHAT: Concerns have been brought to the council that bear discussion
WHEN: Day of Anders reveal by the Advisors
WHERE: Adelaide's Quarters
NOTES: 1) No teal deers, please. 2) This is a quick, actionspammy round robin discussion for hashing out how to address Christine and Morrigan's concerns specifically. 3) General feelings about Anders can be handled elsewhere as that issue has been decided, judged, etc, by the Inquisition at large and the Council does not have authority on the matter. 4) Try to keep timezones in mind so no one gets left behind. 5) Have fun!

It is a simple enough set up; chairs arranged in a circle, a spell for soundrpoofing woven around the room for privacy, wine rather than tea at the ready for what is undoubtedly to be a long and taxing discussion. An informal meeting for informal thoughts- as handling this with any measure of full-hearted, unbiased professionalism is impossible. Sit. Drink. Discuss.

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I would like to say, firstly, that half of this is similar to the alarmist concerns and accusations leveled by Sister Nightengale- and similar to what led to a great deal of trouble in the Spire. Secondly we cannot keep Anders from healing, it is the one thing that fulfills Justice's purpose in a safe and agreeable manner.

However- having him on his own somewhere separate and having his patients informed. This I agree with. It is safest for him and anyone that would be treated by him.

[ Ellana doesn't plan on saying much, as she doesn't know much of the issue at hand and judgement was already served at Kirkwall. But she knows of the dangers a demon can present. Clans have been destroyed because of it. ]

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but are you saying everyone should allow a demon what it wants?

[A glance and firm nod at Ellana.]

Humoring an abomination is not something I'll ever support. The fact that he's even drawing breath is ridiculous. But since we don't have a say in that, separate him and inform patients, it is. At the very least.

Edited 2016-03-07 22:20 (UTC)

As you say, that decision is not ours. So I think it less humouring an abomination than it is mitigating the risks. He is no longer unknown - and he is not our only healer. Those in need have a choice.

Honestly, I don't know what they're thinking. He is an abomination and should be executed already.

[Vivienne holds opinions about him. Very angry ones. And anyone who knows her even moderately well can probably tell that she is masking some seething fury until the mask of cold disdain. It's not even about his act of terrorism and the war he prompted. Abomination. Should. Be. Killed.]

I would question the sanity of anyone who would willingly choose that monster for their healing.

[There are reasons why he should live

He didn't expect to survive when he turned himself in

Guess who knows a lot of things the Council doesn't know from Warden discussions and looks appropriately stressed and troubled because she can't. Say. Any of it.]

If healing is what Justice needs to fulfill his purpose, then, that is something he can do for the Wardens. Willing parties - if they feel safe with him - could perhaps do the same. If they wished.

Spirit. Tainted spirit- it is complicated. Justice is Justice unless Justice is Vengeance- preventing a spirit from fulfilling it's purpose is one of the many ways a spirit becomes a demon. We help Justice fulfill it's purpose- we run less risk of there being an incident.

[ Setting Anders aside might not be enough- if no one comes to him? What good will that do. ]

Wardens are injured often enough but not on the basis they would need to feel fulfilled. And...even with the Inquisition's judgement passed there are those that might act against him. Better that someone can mind him and prevent either an incident or an altercation.

I agree that someone should watch him at all times, but hopefully the Wardens are already doing that. I can't see that many wanting to go to him to be healed, and it's no one's job to make sure Justice is fulfilled. No one is going to line up to his tent so that Justice doesn't become Vengeance.

It is not our job, no. However, whatever our personal feelings on the decision, the legal fact is a valid judgment has been rendered by the Champion of Kirkwall and the Inquisition has chosen to abide by it, conceding the primacy of the Wardens in the ongoing matter.

And we should be careful. No one is obligated to see him, I agree, but if we actively make it difficult for Anders to prevent himself from being perverted by a demon, we run the risk of the Inquisition deciding that a Council that will undermine their decisions in such a way will no longer be legitimised by them, and we will lose the ability to act in this matter and others. Our authority is theirs, ultimately. I would not risk mages being unrepresented.

[A firm nod in agreement with Vivienne. Korrin and the loyal Circle mage rarely see eye-to-eye, but on this? They think as one. Sadly, it's not up to them.]

He's already warped, beyond repair. [She huffs, but nods grudgingly to the rest of what Benevenuta says.] Fair point. I have no intention of that abomination ruining what we've built, even indirectly. Full disclosure should be given to everyone, and they can decide from there whether or not it's worth it to be healed by him or someone else.

We should also consider an official council response to all this. I know there are enough idiots out there who will believe that if we don't denounce his actions, that we're supporting them. It's better to make it clear beyond a doubt that we don't.

Edited 2016-03-09 04:10 (UTC)

I agree entirely, my dear.

[Run for the hills!! Korrin and Vivienne are in complete agreement.]

We must be exceptionally cautious in how we proceed, lest we find ourselves painted as being complicit supporters for lack of firm denouncement.

Let me be clear. I do not care in the slightest if his feelings are hurt. Would to the Maker he had thrown himself off the battlements and saved all of us the trouble. But he has not and has managed to once again bring trouble to our abode. Where this man is involved, there is death and chaos in his wake. We shall find ourselves blessed indeed if the armies of Thedas do not turn their blades against the Inquisition for harboring him under the guise of upholding the law. And they would be right to do so. This is a betrayal, and an indication that he cares nothing for anyone but himself and his crusade.

We cannot be seen as even remotely supporting this monster or the demon he carries.

It will be a difficult line to tread, in whichever we choose to deliver it; we must make it clear where our support lies, and why we are doing certain things. And not only so we do not undermine the Inquisition. [She looks to Benevenuta, thinking on her words.] If his condition were to deteriorate, another abomination - a true one - may find its way to Skyhold. We cannot allow that to happen again.

A formal declaration would be redundant. We defer to the leaders of the Inquisition, doubly stating so draws undue attention to a situation they have settled.

[ Maker- all this. Adelaide reaches behind her to pour out a glass of wine, passing the bottle along to whoever would wish for one as well. ]

As he has been here for months without incident due to being able to fulfill the purpose of the Spirit of Justice he houses, leads me to believe so long as he is permitted to continue to do so with monitoring, it will not become an issue. As having a templar at the ready would exacerbate his condition, someone with experience with Spirits and is skilled in cutting off mana should there be signs of deteriation is in order.

[ Nevermind that it is wine, good wine, Adelaide swallows half her glass in one go to choke down what she is about to suggest. ]

Having one of our own mind him as well shows we are taking this seriously. I will do so.

( benevenuta had taken the bottle - she sets it aside to take adelaide's hand, instead, on impulse. )

We are in a tenuous position. With all the eyes of Thedas turned here, I'd have them see us handle this deftly. Adelaide's suggestion sends a clear message, and risks less for us now and later.

I'd not have the leaders of nations see us as uppity, volatile mages who will abide only by decisions we like - they will not thank us, for they will not distinguish us from him in that. Our Council as it is ends when the Inquisition does - what we do between now and then defines how we move forward after.

That man is not the hill I will die on.

[ Ellana shakes her head. ]

I agree with Korrin and Vivienne. The point of this council is to help the mages here. We aren't stepping over anyone's authority to release a statement denouncing him. We have never tried to wrestle away control or overrule decisions. What we do is make ourselves available to those mages who agree to work with us. Mages who have done nothing wrong, unlike him.

If you want to watch him, Adelaide, no one will stop you, but don't do it on behalf of the council. Sticking our noses in is exactly what we want to avoid here. All we want to do is make sure simple minded fools don't think we support him by keeping silent, as well as educating our youth on what he's done, and, well... we haven't come to a decision yet on warning people who may be his patient. Whether or not that constitutes as sticking our noses in or not, I can't say. I can see both sides.

Sometimes redundancy is needed. Sure, we think it goes without saying that people should believe we support the Inquisition, but there are plenty who won't see silence as agreement. A firm declaration would erase all doubt.

[She takes a long sip of wine from her glass, then darts a brief smile at Vivienne and Ellana for their added support. As for Adelaide's suggestion, her brow furrows.]

The Wardens are taking responsibility for him, shouldn't it be one of their number? They insisted on doing so; any supervision should be their burden.

Edited 2016-03-11 01:24 (UTC)

I concur. This is a time when redundancy is ideal.

[Wine? Maker, yes please. Vivienne's too polite to chug but right now she wants to.]

As sensible as it would be to put him out of Skyhold with a Templar or ten on hand when he has a relapse of conscience, I do not see that happening. The best we can settle for is unequivocally separating ourselves from him and his actions. Past, present, and future. Let the Wardens have their joy of their abomination. But he should not be inflicted on us any further.

If he wishes to placate his demon, let him do it well and away from our good people seeking succor from honest healers. They are not wrong to wish not to be painted with his blood-soaked brush.

( a deep breath and a slightly more full than is entirely socially acceptable glass of wine -

she's not going to dissuade them from a statement, that's obvious, so she chooses her battles; )

Such a statement must be carefully made. Courting the ire of the Inquisition leadership will not protect mages - we must take care to leave no ambiguity as to our support for them. More than this one man, we cannot forget that division here - weakness - it is the weapon of our enemy.

( and she is much more concerned about corypheus than anders, who should've done them all a favour and died in kirkwall. after a moment, )

And as such, I think to provide our own measure of security in the supervision of a mage more familiar with his specialty than those among the Wardens is a stronger gesture for the fact it is not our responsibility to do so. We do not simply shake our little fists and stomp our little feet at a decision we dislike; we act to ensure our own are not jeopardised by it. We simply do not have the luxury of being as separate as all that. We are not.

Edited 2016-03-13 09:02 (UTC)

[ If anything, Ellana just looks confused now. Briefly, she glances over at Sabriel. Her roommate is going to be bombarded with questions later. ]

But where is the line? How do we neatly draw one between acting and overstepping? We have no authority to watch Anders, as he is under the Wardens' protection. Isn't it overstepping our bounds to tell them we don't trust them enough to watch him? I do think he should be supervised, but sending one of our own to do it in our name is a bad idea. Any mage spending too much time with him is a bad idea. People will already think we support his ideals if we don't make a statement. Think of the message it could send if we have a Councillor watching him. You know how people are. There will be talk of conspiracies, of our council collaborating with him. We can't allow that talk to start in the first place.

( with her eyebrows rising, )

We act in accordance with the decision already made, as a part of the Inquisition, by providing an available option rather than forcing ourselves in. If it is not overstepping to declare our opinion of their decision, it is hardly overstepping to support them.

[ Ellana's gaze lowers to her lap. She really feels out of her element here, and like she can't understand the intricacies of politics. So she'll just stay silent until they're ready to give their final vote. ]

[Sabriel glances back to Ellana, and she half-frowns as she retreats from conversation. Politics can be very cumbersome, but unfortunately, necessary.]

There is no harm in a suggestion. But whether it would, or should, be accepted- [she sighs,] -is only for my superiors to say. He will be watched, regardless of whether the Council offers its presence or assistance. It might be accepted; it might not be, but it is in accordance with what has already been decided.

If we are to offer, a statement will be all the more crucial, for transparency.

All we can do is make that offer. I do not mean to say I would stand instead of his warden minder, but as well as whomever you so choose to watch him- at least when he is casting and healing. That is when the risk is at it's greatest and of the largest concern to us.

[ Adelaide squeezes Benny's hand tight as she drinks deeply, pouring another glass shortly thereafter. ]

How should it be phrased?

[Korrin's by far the least diplomatic of the bunch, but it was her suggestion, so she'll speak up...after more wine. She also shoots a worried glance at Adelaide about that offer, but she'll refrain from further comment on that...for now.]

Begin with our support of the Inquisition, make it clear that we're not trying to create more fractures. Then we get to the subject of Anders and make our stance known. Transparency all around.

( a small sigh. )

Yes; that his actions did not support mages, and we do not condone them or support him.

( she's still wary of how it might play out with the advisors, but it isn't as if they'll be saying anything she fundamentally disagrees with. )

I am happy to draft it, as I have done.

Informing students of who and what Anders is, what he's done- while a harsh truth and uncomfortable one for them to learn? I agree that it must be done. I myself would rather he not linger around my students at the very least.

I prefer that we not be perceived as encouraging the influence of a man with his history on our youngest and most vulnerable, certainly.

The students definitely ought to know, and be warned against extended -or any- contact with the abomination. We'd be doing them a disservice by not informing them; the news is going to get out anyway, so it's better coming from us.

Yes, I agree with this too. After what they've experienced already, they need warning, and continued education about demons and abominations.

[ A pause. ]

And probably someone better suited with human law than I am should be ready for questions on why this abomination hasn't been struck down yet.

I'm familiar enough with the law of the land and of the Chantry and I too would like answers why this is being allowed to continue. Still, I agree, we should be prepared and united in what we tell them. I have little doubt they will have questions.

I believe we are agreed that he should not now, nor ever, be permitted access to our children.

No, they should not be. In all the Council has ever done, it is for their protection. [She hesitates, and adds,] I do not think he would expect things to remain as they were, nor want them to.

[A sigh.] They should know these circumstances are unusual. As to how they are told, I am not... sure as to what is best.

Because we cannot pick and choose who we stand for, because it is not for us to judge merely for us to work around. He is a war criminal and possessed but he is still a mage.

At the most- never, at the least? Thoroughly supervised. We tell them what he chose and what came of it. There is a lesson in this if nothing else on not losing yourself to a spirit.

[Korrin nods firmly to the 'thoroughly supervised' part, and the lesson involved.]

At least this way he'll be a cautionary tale, not a damn martyr.

Yes, that exactly - we are to whom mages come with their difficulties. Not an extremist abomination. We can't afford to play into a narrative of romantic struggle. Our younger mages have suffered. They're vulnerable - susceptible to a good story. Let us not give him one.

[ It hadn't occurred to Ellana that young mages might look at Anders's story as romantic. Even as big a romantic as she is, she looks faintly horrified. ]

Then we should probably write out some sort of guide for ourselves on what to tell them. Obviously we can't foretell exactly what questions they'll ask, but having a uniform response will help so that -- at least from the Council -- they aren't getting two or more different responses in regards to Anders when they come to us individually.

[Uniting for a uniform response truly is ideal, and for all the dickering they do on a regular basis, it is good to see them thinking as one on this issue. Ellana gets a nod from the Iron Lady in agreement.]

Let us not forget also that children, by nature, are contrary. If we tell them not to interact with him, some will simply to test their boundaries. If we are to prevent him, we shall have to take our stance to the Wardens and trust them to convey and enforce this decision.

[She glances to Sabriel. The Warden among them should know best if that would be accepted.]

It is the very least we could do. [Considering, well, everything else.] I will personally see that it is done, Madame Vivienne. Supervision, at the least, will not be a problem - if any of the children did try to approach him, they would not find Anders alone.

Making ourselves a source of support is vital- too many concerns went unspoken, too many fears unaddressed in the Circle for a lack of certainty as to who we were safe to speak to. If we make ourselves plain and approachable? They will come to us first.

Vivienne's mentorship proposal is perfect for that.

[Benuta gets a gracious nod from Vivienne and the closest thing to a smile anyone is going to see for a good long while. There is the matter of Morrigan's private note to consider.]

Indeed. Once we have reached consensus here and taken appropriate action, we should focus our collective efforts on providing good solid leadership for our students to turn to.

[Her lips press into a line. They need to know the rest.]

Supervision is ideal, but we should be wary regardless. I have it on good authority that he was inquiring into the methods of shapeshifting.

[And what little mageling doesn't wanna hug a harmless bunny?]

Shapeshifting?

[She sounds and looks aghast for a moment before she reigns it back in. That's news to her.]

That's... troubling. We can make ourselves approachable, and give fair warning to the children, but... we cannot be prepared for every outcome, can we?

Considering his supposed background I do not find such an interest surprising.

[ She had seen the scars on his back, the tension around templars. Little red flags she'd never stepped far enough away from to see the whole. ]

We make it plain that we are not here to condemn any mage with concerns or fears- that we are here to work with them, to protect them, to ensure their safety and their freedom as best we can. While there is no way to predict everything that might go wrong- making certain they know that should anything happen they can trust us? That is what is important.

Shapeshifting? Fucking hell.

[Korrin sighs, resting her head in her hand.]

At least we're warned, but him having access to that kind of magic on top of being what he already is...disastrous.

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[ CLOSED ] Mage Council Informal Discussion

First Concern- Christine's

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Second Concern- Morrigan's

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