faderift | [Open] Tell me would you kill to save a life?

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[Open] Tell me would you kill to save a life?

WHO: Anders and, at last, fully open!
WHAT: Anders is back in Skyhold after the revelation and Warden mission
WHEN: Around mid-Drakonis
WHERE: around Skyhold
NOTES: It's Anders. Beyond that, if someone does swing for him, he will be defending himself or we can have a handy-dandy Warden NPC Joeth Smithicus step in, up to you!

1. The Healing Tents

He's more quiet than he was before as he works, trying to stay out of the way while still being available. The atmosphere isn't a pleasant one, and he knows there's a lot of anger, but how is he going to help out if he's sitting in the Warden camp all the time? Even more, how is he going to keep Justice in check if their hands are figuratively tied?

The fact of the matter is that staying somewhere safe where people don't loathe him isn't an option so he's here. He only wishes it wasn't putting a weight on the shoulders of someone he's directly hurt.

Whenever someone comes in he looks over, focusing on the fact that it's all right however many times he hears no as the answer to his question - "Can I help you?"

2. Wardentown

It's not the most glamorous setting, but the life of a Grey Warden rarely is. There had been nights at Vigil's Keep... but those are long gone, and now it's tents and fire pit and keeping snow from piling up.

a) Magic-

Anders is currently kneeling near the tent that he shares with Nate, working on creating a pair of small walls of earth - one around the tent, and another small, circular one nearby. Earth isn't something he struggles with, but keeping them level and not causing any extra dips in the surrounding ground is a challenge. His lips are pressed together as he works on precision, and an approach gets a sharp glance and no words, but he's not annoyed someone's come over. A moment later he'll raise an eyebrow, but he's not starting this conversation.

b) Kitten

No matter how many times he has to keep drying her off and warming her up, Hero of Purrelden doesn't want to stay in his lap today. She's insisting on pouncing on snowbanks, batting at ice, and attempting to climb tents. The latter she's pulled away from each time while protesting loudly, but there's a little smile on his face as she misbehaves. It's nice to have a cat again, no matter how much more difficult than Ser Pounce-a-lot she is.

"Still better than a mabari," he'll say to anyone who comes close.

c) Foraging

He's not alone, which sometimes puts him on edge, and sometimes makes him feel a little safer. All the same, Anders is in the area outside the Warden camp with another Warden, looking to see what foodstuffs can be found to add to the pot. They're not in danger of going hungry but it's best to be prepared and know what's growing out here. There's no telling how long the Wardens will be near Skyhold, after all.

There's also no telling who he'll run across out here, and he's more on edge and defensive due to the fact that he doesn't know how someone might react if they come across him when not anticipating that he might be around.

"Watch the snow back that way," is what he says, though, tilting his head in the direction he's come. "There's some hiding a nasty drop. I've marked it with stones." Let them react to that how they will.

3. Wildcard me!

[[ooc: Come at me bros! Skyhold, Warden camp, whatever. If you've got a question about a scenario, feel free to private plurk me @ Nadat or PM this journal.]]

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"Do you actually know that?" That the same number of people would have died? "You just confessed that you had been wrong about being able to handle a possession after researching it... you can't actually know how things would have turned out. There were no other options besides spending time to blow up a building with people in it?"

He can feel Fortitude buzzing at the information. Some of it was that another spirit had crossed the Veil and was currently residing in the man in front of them. The rest was because Anders had done something so rash.

"And what about now? You still have Justice, right?"

Anders raises an eyebrow. The answers seem... pretty obvious, but it's not like he can blame Sam for asking.

"I know that the Rite of Annulment was coming. I've seen escalations before, and Meredith was headed that way. It's entirely possible more would have died, with straight numbers, but it's safe to say that at least it would have been the same. And have you heard a single person in over four years suggest an alternative?"

No one has. No one speaks of anything else that could have been done to save the Kirkwall mages. If there'd been a way, everyone would have been speaking of it. 'But Anders could have done this instead,' would be on the tongue of every Loyalist, every Templar, every Seeker. It's not.

"And as far as Justice goes, he's not frustrated. We're not just able to heal here, but he can help with various injustices and fighting Corypheus. There's no death or Tranquility happening on a near-daily basis to make him more and more angry."

"You knew it was coming so you decided to take the first move? Blowing up the Chantry with the Grand Cleric, which gave Meredith the right to enact it? And I have heard some speak of an alternative. The Rite of Annulment is a decision made by the Grand Cleric. If she had still been in power while Meredith proved how mad she was becoming then it could have been different. Other than that, no. It had already happened, and there were other concerns to deal with."

There had been little reason for anyone to really talk about alternatives after the fact. Anders' actions had brought the system down over the years, but of course those who thought the system did work wouldn't think otherwise. They still thought it even those who joined the Inquisition.

He's quiet for a time as he considers the part about Justice. "How much of what happened in Kirkwall was Justice?" Anders had mentioned if the both of them had calmed down or stepped back, but clearly they hadn't.

"The Grand Cleric knew Meredith, had refused to appoint a new Viscount because she felt Meredith was heading in the right direction." He takes a slow breath. There are a lot of people who weren't there. It makes sense that barely any of the details are known, because they hadn't enhanced the story enough for Varric's taste. "She'd enabled every added restriction without blinking. What was coming was clear to anyone there. If they cared to look. Which they didn't."

They don't. Why look into suffering when someone didn't have to? When it didn't hurt them?

And the other part is even more difficult because Anders suspects but he doesn't know. Not the way he and Justice had known what was coming from Meredith.

"It was..." Anders sighs. If he hadn't been so angry, Justice wouldn't be damaged. And if he'd said no at any point... he's not sure Justice would have listened, but the point still remains, somewhat. "At the end of the day, I didn't say no."

Asking if there were alternatives hardly mattered then if so few knew all the details and most had not been there. It seemed even if he had one to offer, Anders would shoot it down regardless. Clearly for him there had been no alternatives than the course he had taken.

"So what was the point of blowing up the Chantry? Clearly it wasn't to stop a Rite of Annulment because it was ordered anyways." Perhaps sooner because of his actions. What was happening in Kirkwall was wrong, but to take a step such as that? That had not helped the world to see mages in a better light. "Was it just a way to fulfill Justice?"

"It was to stop it. The fact that it didn't is beside the point, it was meant to make Meredith take a step back because it wasn't a mage in her Circle doing it. It was meant to stop the steady erosion of hope going on in the Circle and force her to realize she wasn't making any progress. And it was to give Justice to those who had already been killed before, or made Tranquil for Templars to abuse more easily."

His voice was tired. If Sam didn't see the point Anders had been trying to make, then Anders isn't explaining well, and he's not sure how to do better. He's not sure he has the energy for it no matter how strong his desire to do so is.

"It did fulfill him. Yes. More important was the intention. To change what seemed otherwise inevitable, to break the cycle of unchallenged abuse and murder. To break the cages themselves."

"Because it wasn't a mage in her Circle. Anders, since when did it matter to most Templars or the Chantry about who's Circle you're from?" Magic was magic to the majority of them. The actions of one mage reflected on others.

It isn't that he doesn't see the point that Anders is trying to make. He can see wanting justice, especially if the spirit had called for it, but just killing a bunch of people to make a point in the same manner that he was upset was being done to the mages? That wasn't right either.

"Well the cages are broke, but there are obviously those who want things to go back to the way things were. Including mages. What are you going to do if they do go back?"

"It should have shown her that her harshness was getting her nowhere, that she no longer had the Grand Cleric there and needed to stop and think instead of simply coming down harder as she did every time." That it didn't... He couldn't control how people reacted, or how people saw things.

"And if they want to go back but do not force others, if there is an optional system in place, then let them return to it. All I want, all people need, is to have the choice for freedom as well. To not be forced to spend the whole of their lives locked up if they don't want to, if they've done nothing wrong." Let those who were scared of what they were find some support... and hopefully the encouragement to face the world as everyone else did. And as for the ones who sought a return for personal gain like Vivienne, let them please, Maker, please be eaten by a dragon.

"So a mage blowing a building and people up was supposed to make a Templar rethink about how they were dealing with things? Not at all give them reason to think they were right that mages were too dangerous?" There was no way it would have worked out different, not unless Anders had blown up all the Templars as well. "That does not logically add up to making the other side stop." It was like hitting an angry bear.

"I agree that an optional system should be in place. That is what I can hope for if they do decide to go back. But if they go back to the way it was?" Blowing up Chantrys was not the right answer.

"If she hadn't been beyond rational thought due to her own nature and the red lyrium of her blade, it should have made her stop and realize that she wasn't solving anything. It should have. When seeing what you think are your best efforts fail, wouldn't you think that you should try something else? Except that I had no way of knowing she was beyond thought thanks to her weapon." And they really should have looked into red lyrium more, but hindsight and all that.

"And I don't know what to do if people attempt to reinstate the Circles as they were, required captivity for simply being born. I, at least, can learn from what works as planned and what does not." Especially what doesn't. His life is a story of what doesn't work. "Perhaps what we need is not too dissimilar from Redcliffe, minus the influence of Corypheus' agents. A settlement of our own. Away from the Chantry-obsessed fearful faithful, away from those who want to use us."

If they want mage services, they can pay mages fairly for them, not Templars. And mages could certainly make any place they moved into a fortress and defensible.

Edited 2016-03-30 08:29 (UTC)

Sam can agree that not seeing efforts succeed you would think to try something else, but he just doesn't see how blowing up people would bring that about. Things blowing up made people scared, but most angry and wanted someone to blame. He had been at Haven, witnessed how the people had reacted, this is why he cannot get why Anders would think that would've changed anything. Even so-

"She had red lyrium in her blade?" That was several years ago though wasn't it? It had been known that far back?

"It sounds like you're suggesting mages having a city state. As much as I want to agree with that, wouldn't many view that as us possibly becoming another Tevinter?"

"Her whole blade was red lyrium. We, Hawke and the rest of us, found a small amount in a thaig while we were trapped in the Deep Roads, and we though that was it. We didn't realize that one of the Dwarves hadn't just locked us in, but had taken that and more up to the surface with him." And there had been no way to guess, either. "It drove him mad. We were under the impression that the little bit he had was taken care of." And by taken care of, he means given to Varric, but as the Dwarf's not gone mad he figures it's been handled.

"And the difference between us and Tevinter would be two-fold. One, no blood magic. I believe we can all agree on that." Except for Merrill. But she'd likely be with the Dalish anyway, and wouldn't be a concern. "Two, we're not using magic to rule others. It will be a separate mage population, with people who aren't mages only if they truly want to be there. No one would be kicked out if, say, they're a child of a mage and don't have the gift."

It's a fair point Sam's raised, and one that they'll have to be extremely careful with making if they go this route. He'd rather mages be allowed their own citizenship where ever they'd like, without worries of being locked up for use of magic, but if too many start pushing for Circles, this may be the safest alternative.

Shit, a whole blade? Well he supposes that such a thing now wouldn't be that odd considering there were large formations of red lyrium now and of course red templars. Even so, knowing that red lyrium actually affected Dwarves was concerning, considering regular lyrium didn't as much.

"I can agree, but... there would have to be so many things to consider. Who would govern such a place? a council like we have here in Skyhold? We would have to consider the protection and rights of people without magic, because I hate to admit it but reverse-discrimination could happen. And what would happen if there was blood magic discovered among the population? We'll be gathering mages from all over, and we both know with everything going on that some probably have resorted to it."

Sam knows it's a lot of questions, and not even easy ones. It's something he's considered himself, and the answers were always complicated and complex. The realization about these issues made more complicated after having discussed plenty with mages like Korrin, or any of the Dalish.

"There's a great deal to consider, yes. It would take a lot of mages to put together some sort of organized rules and standards, something that covers mages and those who aren't, gives freedom and equality to all. We don't want discrimination of any sort. We cannot become that which we are trying to escape."

This is a topic he loves to talk on, think on, dream about. It's their future, and he wants one that doesn't include them all being locked up again. If the next generation never has to know that fear and pain, then everything has been worth it. Every single thing he has endured, the loss of so many he's cared for, the punishments for trying to escape, the merging with Justice, possession, even the taking of lives that still weighs on him, will have been worth it.

"And blood mages should be given a chance to repent. To forswear any further use of it. Even without 'everything going on' people have been backed into a corner and felt like they had no option but the use of it; this way they have a reason to try to do better. The former stance of trying it and being executed means that mages have no reason to stop using blood magic, and an offering of one clean slate could be incentive enough to stop everyone who isn't using it for increased power alone."

Justice isn't so sure about the leniency. Blood magic should mean death. But between Hawke and Merrill, Anders can't look down on all blood mages anymore, no matter how easy it is for the spirit to do so.

"And how would that work against people who are still or going to become Templars?" He's curious since Anders said they wouldn't want discrimination, and he doesn't see things getting better between the two groups at the moment.

"I can understand that anyone who uses blood magic aren't all the same, but you really think a clean slate would be incentive enough? No consequences? People who didn't turn to blood magic in the same situations might not feel comfortable. What would you do if blood magic was discovered to still be done?" There were obviously some who didn't view blood magic in an absolute sense. "Would those who truly thought they could do good or trying past rituals to forward research be condemned?"

"There wouldn't be Templars there. Not unless they pledged to treat mages as equals, and to submit to the government of the city-state, which would be mage-run. They can be in the optional Circles, protecting the mages who are terrified of themselves. But any allowed to stay would also be screened. None who are there for power and pleasure, the way so many were, would be allowed in. For once mages should think about mages, and mage safety, rather than keeping our heads down."

So many questions, and he doesn't have answers to all of them. Nor does he think he think the answers he does have are all complete. But he can try.

"One clean slate for those who used blood magic in a way outside of pure, contained, observed research. If it got used against someone again, then that would be dealt with. And anyone uncomfortable with that would need to realize that there are people who have been in very desperate situations with little to no options. It's not like we'd make everyone comfortable at any time, and I'd prefer that everyone have a chance at freedom and life, to take or throw away as they will. Research... for Council-approved uses, when done with great care and respect, I would think could be acceptable. But I would not be making that call."

At the end of the day, no matter how desperate Anders is to help move his people forward, to see them seize the future, many don't want anything to do with him. And some of the ones who do still believe in violence as an answer. He'd only have a leadership role if somehow it served to keep the latter in check.

"And Templars who submitted to such rules and laws wouldn't be discriminated against?" He knows a vast majority of Templars have done terrible things, more so from what Anders has said, but even so Sam doesn't feel they should do the same to anyone who decides to live in this hypothesized city-state. It was something that needed to be considered since there had been a few examples of templar and mage relations alright and having been judged on such.

"That sounds decently reasonable."

He's asking a lot and Anders is answering them relatively well, which has Sam relaxing a bit more around the other mage. He still doesn't agree to Anders' actions in Kirkwall - he said as such at the beginning - but Sam can certainly appreciate where Anders wanted to go with all this, the thoughts he put into all of it.

"... how you were acting on the way back from Emprise du Lion... it was because of all this wasn't it?"

"If they submit, then they should not be. But the moment they cross a line, like if a blood mage returns to using blood magic against someone, then they will feel the full force of the law. Abuse of any kind will simply not be acceptable." No armored fists raised in anger or for 'fun.' No one beaten simply because they're willful, no one locked in a tiny cell and deprived of company for a year.

"There are reasonable solutions, if people will simply allow them to happen. When the few stop seeking personal gain, or control, or power, the many can live." The corrupt, the cruel, the ones like Vivienne, all of them stood in the way. But there was still a chance.

"And yes. I thought I was turning myself in to die. It wasn't a particularly happy thought, but I wanted to finish what I could first. Help a little more." Aside from telling Adelaide, which was nothing except pain.

"... if this does come to pass, you know it will be difficult to pull off. Trying to do what we're trying to manage here in Skyhold at a larger scale, there will be a lot of issues." The power seekers, the ones who want control, all that will be brought in just as equally as all the other things. Even if they picked and chose certain people to start it out, it would make others angry and start feuds.

"And now you're with the Grey Wardens? Does that mean you'll have to leave with them once they're done with helping with Corypheus?"

"Life is difficult. The only thing that's easy is giving up. And if I'm permitted one more cliche, the only things worth having take work. And it will be worth it. Freedom is valuable and so we'll have to make an effort to gain it for mages for the future."

There'd be so many challenges to overcome, but it's far superior to work on moving forward rather than surrender and return to captivity.

"And I don't know what's going on with the Grey Wardens. We've a great deal to figure out." The leadership is a mess. "But no one is about to stop working, even if Corypheus is dealt with. So long as there's no new Blight we may be free to assist with other matters as well."

"I'm not saying not to try, but trying to make something as grand as a city-state... we'll have to hope that this war with Corypheus doesn't last forever." And that a Blight or something else doesn't come up.

"I see. I wasn't aware on how things worked with the Grey Wardens. They're... elusive from what I know. I wasn't expecting to meet one, let alone so many." This war was certainly an interesting one.

"Well. If the war with Corypheus lasts forever, then there won't be any concerns about mage freedom." It's a bleak thought. "Mages will learn battle magic alone, or healing and battle, and be sent out to die like anyone able to carry a weapon. And right now, I've not a vast amount of hope in the Inquisition. It's fragile." Volatile. With divided leaders, if rumors of arguments are anything to go by, divided factions, and people angling for power for themselves.

"But some of the people here are good. And I've seen smaller forces prevail against impossible odds. We could win. And then this becomes far less an academic discussion and more one of survival. Also the Grey Wardens are less elusive than you think. It's simply that we're most often found in the Deep Roads, unlike anyone sane."

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[Open] Tell me would you kill to save a life?

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